October 13, 2010
This is a titillating conversation with amateur TG porn star Donna Queen and her beautiful girlfriend (and frequent co-star) Vickie. Donna is a tall, beautiful 53 year old tgirl living in Eastern Massachusetts. The love of her life is Vickie, a ravishing 47 year old genetically born female. When I approached Donna about doing this interview, I knew I’d want it to be a “threeway” and I believe that Donna had planned on including Vickie also before we even discussed it, if that’s any indication of how I see these two people often as one. This is one very special and very exciting couple.
Caramel: Hey you guys, thanks for doing this interview with me. My first question is a toss-up that one of you or both should feel free to answer. How did you two originally meet?
Vickie: We’ll probably both reply to this. We met online in March 2007. I was online looking for women for NSA sexual encounters. I was bi-curious and wanted to satisfy that curiosity. A mutual friend found me in a bi-female group. She invited me to join an online discussion group that she and Donna co-owned. Donna sent me a welcome email and we quickly became friends. Our friendship deepened over the next few weeks as we found more and more of a connection; intellectually, emotionally, and even physically, even though we live 1000 miles apart. We had a passionate desire for each other that neither of us had experienced before. It was another 6 months before we met face to face. I was NOT looking for a Tgirl, and didn’t realize for about 24 hours that Donna was TG. From her emails to me, she just sounded like a woman. I think this was vital to my view of Donna as a woman. From the very beginning, she presented herself as female. However, there was no deception involved. Donna called herself a T-girl. I just didn’t know what that was! It was more in her presentation of herself. Her word choice, style, tone, all sounded decidedly female to me.
Donna: Just as Vickie was NOT online looking to meet a t-girl, I was most certainly NOT looking for a genetic woman. I was looking for NSA sex with men and other tgs. I’ve always been fully bisexual and (obviously) I enjoy sex with ggs, but it never occurred to me when I first established my online presence that anything more than a vanishingly small percentage of ggs had even the slightest interest in sexual relationships with t-girls. By the time Vickie and I met, I had already begun to encounter a startling number of genetic females who indeed appeared to be sexually interested, but I dismissed most of it as fleeting internet fantasy. I didn’t want to waste my time and energy pining for the love of an understanding woman like many sad and lonely tgs do, so I didn’t. For me, Vickie was truly a bolt from the blue. I didn’t see it coming at all, especially not in the form of a nice conservative Southern Baptist lady from Kentucky who had essentially zero prior knowledge and experience of the transgender world. During the last few years all my assumptions about women and tgirls have been completely upended, and not just by Vickie. Humans are remarkably multifaceted creatures.
Caramel: My next question is for Donna. You’ve stated that you’ve recently become more acutely aware of a “sex-negative attitude amongst certain members of the tg community. How do you get over with your annoyance about tgirls who openly embrace and celebrate their sexuality?
Donna: I don’t think what some of us like to call the “Tranny Police” will ever stop irritating me in one way or another, but I’ve long since found my own countervailing power in the community. I have friends and admirers from the world over who love what I do and derive great pleasure from it. Life is hard and people deserve a break now and then. If my sexually explicit pictures and video can brighten up even one person’s otherwise lousy day, then I’ve done a good thing.
Caramel: Why do you think the detractors of tgirl erotica are embarrassed by it and disapprove of it so much?
Donna: I think it probably stems from their fundamental insecurity and lack of complete confidence in their outward gender expression. They want more than anything to be accepted as “real” women, and “real” women do not have erections and do not ejaculate. For such people, erections and ejaculation are inherently and inescapably male sexual phenomena and are fundamentally incompatible with femininity. I take a different view. I have a penis. I was born with it, and since puberty my penis has been my organ of sexual pleasure and release. I use it regularly and I enjoy it immensely, and because I love sex and sexuality, I intend to keep it. I don’t want to have SRS and I’m dubious about hormones because I don’t want to lose my sexual response. Although I possess and enjoy my male organ, I do not regard it as any kind of impediment to my fundamental feminine character. As Vickie will attest, I am extremely feminine in bed, and having an erect cock that releases a whole lot of sperm when I reach orgasm doesn’t change that.
Even if some tgirls can’t manage to look feminine while using their male equipment for sexual purposes, they still have the same right to sexual expression as anyone else has, and if that includes sexual image-making, so be it. Women can do it, men can do it, and so can we. This is who were are, and we shouldn’t be ashamed to display and celebrate our unique sexuality.
Caramel: About two years ago, you’d decided not to share photography exposing yourself from the waist down. But you later changed your mind. What was your initial reason for making your work Rated PG and at what point did you say “the hell with it” and decide to share your erotica with us again?
Caramel: Me too, Vickie. I’m on the edge of my seat for waiting for the full story.
Donna: Oy. This is all terribly embarrassing in retrospect, but here goes. At the time Vickie and I met, I was embroiled in weird and complicated online relationship with a person calling herself Sarah, who claimed to be a married woman in Southern California with a special interest in guiding ladies like me toward her particular notion of transgender perfection. She contacted me with an extremely flattering email, and I stepped right into her web. As it turned out, I had a web of my own, albeit not one consciously woven, and she became inordinately fascinated with me, and eventually emotionally dependent. Sarah rejected the “dominant” label, preferring to characterize herself as “assertive.” She expected me and the other girls in her stable to be “compliant” as opposed to “submissive.” Whatever. Anyway, one day Sarah assertively declared that I was sharing a bit too much of myself with the world, and I compliantly adopted a new modesty. Not long after that I began to tire of the whole ridiculous charade, tore myself free, and never looked back.
Caramel: I’m glad you’re free of her and this is nothing to be embarrassed about. I’m sure you’re in good company having been in a weird and complicated online relationship amongst our readers. I’ve had a similar nightmarish situtation a bit like that myself.
Vickie, do you think the mainstream perception of transgender males to females and females to males is progresssing and do you think that our sexual self-expression detracts from our overall image?
Vickie: I do think the general public’s perception of TGs is progressing. I have “come out” to many friends, family, co-workers and mere acquaintances about my relationship with Donna. I live in a very politically and religiously conservative part of the country and, without fail, every one has been accepting, tolerant and very interested in learning more about her. While not all of my friends fully understand or can identify with Donna, none has found her deviant, strange or any of the other adjectives some more ignorant people may use to describe TGs. I do have friends who sometimes stumble over male and female pronouns, not exactly sure which one to use. But that comes more from confusion than intolerance.
As far as whether or not sexual self-expression detracts from TGs’ image, I don’t think you can make a blanket statement that all TGs express their sexuality blatantly any more than all GGs do. Some Tgirls are absolute prudes. Some GGs are prudes. Some are a little risque and some are over-the-top porn queens. So the same question could be asked of GGs: Does my sexual self-expression detract from that of other women? I don’t think so. But perhaps TGs are “judged” much more as a conglomerate than as individuals.
Caramel: Some women believe that the only females in existence are genetically born females and that even after a transsexual undergoes SRS, she’s a man with a vagina, but not a “true woman”. Where do you stand on this controversial and often extremely divisive issue?
Vickie: I know Donna and one TG friend of hers pretty well. I’ve “met” a few online as well. Donna is a woman. There’s no question about that. Often, I find that she behaves more “womanly” than I do, and I find myself responding like a clueless guy. No, she will never bear children. She’ll never experience the “joy” of bleeding once a month. But those things don’t make a woman female. There are lots of GGs who can’t have children. My vagina doesn’t define me. My ovaries probably affect my emotional response to many things, but Donna doesn’t have ovaries and she is often WAY more emotional than I am. Her heart, mind and soul are all woman. This doesn’t come from anything physical. It’s just who she is.
I don’t believe that SRS makes a TG any “more of a woman” than not undergoing SRS. SRS is a personal decision. And a TG who elects not to undergo surgery is not less of a woman because of it.
In the past three years, I’ve really learned to move away from the labels quite a bit. You still kind of need to know where people fall on the spectrum, but when it comes down to it, it’s really only the individual’s business. I am no longer worried about whether I’m bi, a lesbian, or some weird hybrid. I am what I am. Donna is what she is. Together we’re a happy couple in love. And it really doesn’t matter what it looks like to the rest of the world.
Caramel: I know that you’re both not into BDSM as a lifestyle other than as source material for your theatrical erotica for photos and videos. But do you ever explore domination and submission as roleplay for your personal satisfaction outside of your photographs and videos?
Donna: Funny you should ask. I’ve always enjoyed the physical sensation of spanking and light bondage but I’ve never really taken to the complicated psychosexual aspect of BDSM. Recently however, I’ve been writing erotic fiction with a significant BDSM element, and the more I write, the more I wonder if I’m not simply uncovering something authentic in me that has lain dormant for all these years. I can’t be pulling all these elaborate fantasies out of thin air. I’m enjoying the process too much and finding it much too stimulating for it not to be coming from somewhere in the depths of my true psyche. Needless to say, Vickie and I have had some rather interesting conversations recently.
Caramel: Vickie, was it Donna who introduced you to the softer side of BDSM, including spanking, fetishwear, ropeplay, etc? On a scale from 1 to 10, what number would you chose to describe your level of BDSM involvement?
Vickie: It was definitely Donna who introduced me to it. I’ve never thought about spanking anyone or any kind of fetish wear. I just didn’t get it. Donna has introduced me to a lot of things I never would have considered before. Not that I was opposed to them, but they were just off my radar… not something I thought about at all. I would rate my BDSM involvement at about a 3. Not a big part of my life, but a fun little addition once in a while. And it is strictly for fun. Nothing serious and no real domination. It’s always done with love.
As Donna mentioned, she has been writing some erotic fiction lately with some interesting BDSM scenarios. I’m intrigued with the unusual ideas she’s coming up with and am looking forward to playing them out. I could definitely see this becoming a more prominent part of our sex lives.
Caramel: Donna, why do you feel that “forced feminization” and “sissification” are ridiculous and misogynistic?
Donna: The idea the femininity must be “forced” on someone implies that femininity is something to be resisted; that it is a demotion from the superior rank of maleness. These terms equate being female with being humiliated and degraded. To become a woman is to be stripped of your dignity and self-worth. The practices of “forced feminization” and “sissification” are an insult to women and serve only to reinforce male power and prerogatives.
Caramel: From some of your photos, it’s obvious that you know a lot about Shibari (ropework). How did you learn how to do it so well?
Donna: LOL! I have no idea! I wouldn’t know Shibari from a hole in ground, to be honest. The only possible explanation is that I have fished and handled boats all my life, so I know how to rig lines pretty well. I don’t really know what I’m doing. I just do it and it comes out right.
Donna: Absolutely! As I said earlier, I’m leery of hormone treatments because I fear losing my sexual response, but I definitely want implants.
Caramel: Vickie, how do you feel about Donna taking things to the next level with her physical transition and do hormone treatments for her frighten you at all?
Vickie: I will love it when Donna has breasts!!!! I love tits. I love to look at them, feel them, kiss them. I love her little mounds now and they’re purely natural. An online friend has photoshopped breasts onto a couple of Donna’s pics and I love the way they look on her. Am I gushing? I’m really, really, really looking forward to Donna having breasts. I am not interested in her using hormones, however. I’m concerned about how that may affect her sexual desire and her emotions. She already acts enough like a woman without adding estrogen to the mix. I think she would drive me crazy. LOL.
As far as SRS, I fully support Donna’s decision to not do it. And if she wanted it, I would support that too. I just want her to be happy.
Donna: He was very sweet and gentlemanly. He admitted to being impressed but a little unnerved by how sexy I looked. Being a professional photographer, he had his camera gear with him and took some lovely pictures that day. I cherish each and every one of those images.
Caramel: I’m a big fan of Mike Miller‘s work. Mike a photographer from Boston who’s shot great photos of you two. How did you meet him? Each of you are great and taking photos and videos also. Were either of you professionally trained?
Vickie: I’m not sure if you’re referring to the photography itself or posing. I am not a trained photographer nor have I had any training as a model. I’ve always taken a lot of snapshots and that has been a great way for Donna and me to share our lives across the miles. We share photos all the time, especially now with quality cellphone cameras. We can take a pic and share it instantly.
I’ve really only done two real photo shoots in my life. One was in June 2007 right after I met Donna. They were my first nudes and a huge personal step for me. As a big woman, I have always had self-esteem issues. It was much easier for me to cover myself up than to take everything off. But this was something I had always wanted to do. Donna’s support and appreciation of my body gave me the courage I needed to do it. I was really uncomfortable, not with my nudity, but with posing. And once I saw the results, I absolutely hated the pictures. I looked worse than I thought I did. What a surprise when Donna loved them! And as I began posting them online, I was stunned to find out that a lot of people liked them. After that I came out of my shell and started taking more and more revealing photos.
I began a personal experiment in 2008 and photographed myself every day. It was a project to see how I changed over the year. It turned out to be a diary of the most emotionally tumultuous year of my life and gave people a great deal of insight into my real life and me as a person. I got very good at taking self portraits with a timer and shooting at arm’s length. I think that what people liked most about those photos was that they revealed the true me. I have never enjoyed posing or having my picture taken. Over the course of a year, I learned to just let the real me show, even when I wasn’t at my best. I experimented a little with lighting and composition. But it was all purely trial and error.
The second professional shoot I did was with Donna and our friend/photographer Mike. The posed pictures from this shoot are not my favorites. I’m just not a good “model.” I’m very uncomfortable with “posing.” However, the more erotic photos of Donna and me together are spectacular. The difference is they are not posed. We just started playing, and let our lovemaking develop. Mike caught it all on film. It’s porn, but it’s very real. And the emotional bond between us is evident. The viewer can see the intensity of our feelings for each other.
Donna: I’ve been a serious photographer for many years. Before I went completely digital I did my own B&W printing in a darkroom. It was only a few years ago, however, that I began to pursue erotic image-making in earnest. I have a close gg friend named Albina, a young woman born in Siberia of Tatar extraction. She and I found that we shared a desire to do erotic modeling and set out to find photographers to work with. We did our first session with my old friend (the one I came out to), who took some truly extraordinary pictures. Mike, who I’d come to know through his work with a tg fetish model named Cypruss, did our second shoot. Albina and I have great chemistry on camera and many memorable images came out of those two sessions.
Vickie, of course, sells herself terribly short as a model. She is an incredibly beautiful and sensual woman, and these qualities radiate from her pictures. Our own session with Mike was indeed very different from the session I did with Albina. Albina and I had a clear plan that we executed efficiently and professionally. This is not to say that we “faked it,” however. We couldn’t and wouldn’t have accomplished what we did without having a real erotic connection. Nevertheless, it was not comparable to what Vickie and I created together in front of Mike’s lens. Vickie and I had no plan at all. We just started to make love that way we always do, and let our passion take us where it will. To my mind, the results are nothing short of breathtaking. Vickie and I generate tremendous heat together, and Mike captured every bit of it.
As for my video work, I started making masturbation videos for the casual entertainment of friends and acquaintances, and the response was so overwhelmingly positive that I decided share them with a wider internet audience. Much to my amazement, they became wildly popular almost overnight. They seem to create a stir wherever I post them. I recently started a profile on xHamster, and I’ve had tens of thousands of views already. I must be doing something right, although I’m not sure what it is.
Caramel: Donna, years before I knew we’d ever bump into each other online, I loved your videos, particularly your self-facial videos. In one of those first videos I’d seen, you were lying on your back and jerking off until you splashed your face with your come. You weren’t contorted upside down and the whole ordeal looked effortless. In my mind, I labeled you the Peter North of tgirl porn. When you ejaculate, is it usually that powerful?
Donna: To this day I remember the very first time I successfully masturbated to orgasm. I was astonished at the quantity of semen I produced and the force with which it came out. It was all over the place and I had a huge mess to clean up in the middle of the night. Ever since I’ve been sexually active my massive eruptions have been a source of much amusement and amazement. I don’t always think to warn people in advance if they are about to perform oral on me for the first time. I probably should.
Caramel: I wouldn’t want to be warned unless it were being filmed. I’d want a money-shot close-up!
Vickie, you get to experience Donna’s orgasms all the time first hand. Please pardon the pun. What sort of foreplay techniques do you most enjoy performing on Donna and what are some of the things she does that send you over the edge?
Vickie: We are a very normal couple. There is a lot of kissing, caressing, groping and nibbling. When we first see each other after a long absence, we are both sexually starved and cannot get naked fast enough. I am a more aggressive kisser than Donna. She, um, kisses like a girl. LOL.
One thing that I love is running my hands over her body, caressing her soft skin as I kiss her. Then I lift her dress and caress her back, waist and belly, slipping my hand into her panties, and getting a handful of goodies! That’s a true T-girl moment. Donna as a TG is not a fetish for me. I’m not a tranny chaser. But that moment of making out with a gorgeous, sexy woman, and finding something extra in her panties is so exciting!
I love giving Donna blow jobs and hand jobs. She is so responsive and I love giving her those feelings and making those incredible noises come out of her mouth. She’s very vocal.
As far as what sends me over the edge, the first moment when her fingers stroke my pussy are pure Nirvana for me. I can barely contain myself. There are lots more things she does for me, but I have to keep some things private, don’t I?
Caramel: Some things I guess LOL. Seriously, I really appreciate your candor and you have an deliciously erotic way of putting things.
How long was it after you began dating Donna did you use a strapon with her?
Vickie: The first time was two years after we “met” online, eighteen months after our first real meeting and our fifth “date.” But each date was a weekend with more bonding crammed into it than you can imagine. We had wanted to do it a year earlier than that but nerves got in the way. When we finally did, it was right. It was the same weekend of our photo shoot with Mike, our first spanking and our first time cooking together, so there were a lot of “firsts” that weekend.
Caramel: I’ve had a GG girlfriend who loved using her strapons with me. We’re both dominant but I enjoy penetration also. She surprised me the first time we had strapon sex by having a tremendous orgasm long before I came. She said half of the climax was from mental stimulation and that the other half came from clitoral stimulation. Do you climax when making love with Donna with a strapon?
Vickie: I don’t climax when making love to Donna with a strapon but I have a lot of difficulty climaxing anyway. I’ve thought about getting a strapon that provides some clitoral stimulation, but haven’t yet. I am a giver, sexually. And my concentration is totally focused on giving Donna pleasure. I derive a great deal of satisfaction from watching the look on her face, hearing her moans and caressing her body, particularly her long legs as she props them on my shoulders. It’s intoxicating. So I fully understand your girlfriend’s comment about the mental stimulation. It is an extraordinary experience for me, but not orgasmic… yet. Get Donna to tell you about the look on my face during it.
Caramel: Wow, I think I’ll take you up on that and ask Donna later. Vickie, I know that Donna loves you more than she’s ever loved anyone else. However, every relationship has its ups and downs. When it comes to transgender related issues, what were the toughest challenges for you?
Vickie: I don’t know that our challenges are really transgender issues. They are more everyday issues that all couples face, such as how do we find balance between our families, jobs, and each other. Hmmm… let me think. Donna struggles with the notion that being TG is selfish. I try to let her know that sometimes it’s ok to be selfish if it ultimately leads to personal happiness. It all goes back to finding balance. She had to balance her life as a woman, a lover, a father and a professional in a challenging field. And maybe I’m naive, but I think she can be all of those.
Caramel: On the flipside, what aspect of Donna’s transgender lifestyle do you enjoy the most?
Vickie: Again, we are just a normal couple. I love HER. When we go out, we look like a lesbian couple and I couldn’t care less. On our last visit in Boston, a woman on the train asked us if we have always known we are lesbians. She had no idea Donna was TG. She saw us as two women in love. We are two PEOPLE in love. Our genders don’t matter to us. I love going out dancing with this tall, beautiful woman. I love having an intellectually stimulating conversation and laughing over dinner. I love it when others read her and nod their approval. I love spending time with my best friend who thinks, talks and acts like a woman, but has the anatomy of a man. Much to Donna’s chagrin, as each of my GG friends has realized the magnitude of my situation, a close, loving relationship with a woman, a woman who has a penis, they get this dreamy look on their faces and say “Wow… you have the best of both worlds.” I really do. I have a best friend who loves me as only a woman can. And sexually she can satisfy all my desires, in every way.
Caramel: Donna, the last time I was seriously involved with a genetic female, I’d often worry that my mate might not be able to handle my gender issues and interest in men. Ironically what broke us up was that we simply got on each other’s nerves and were better off as friends, but I digress. Have you ever looked at Vickie and thought to yourself, “I hope this sweet girl knows what she’s getting herself into with me”?
Donna: Vickie and I have an advantage in that at the beginning, Vickie knew me exclusively in my female persona. She did not see me in male mode at all during our first in-person visit. It took a long time before I felt at all comfortable allowing Vickie to see me as a male. Vickie met and fell in love with me, Donna, and not “that guy,” as I sometimes call him. In the past, if I had to meet Vickie in male mode I’d be terribly awkward and antsy until I finally got into the bathroom to make myself up. Now I’m able to relax and not worry about it for the most part. Even so, the change in how I feel and how I function in the world from one mode to the other is remarkable. I am infinitely more confident and at ease in almost every situation when I am able to present as the person I really am. I think Vickie might be able to describe the transformation better than I can. I know how I feel inside, but Vickie can tell you what she and others can see.
Vickie: When Donna arrives in male mode, she is still Donna to me; the same personality, the same face, but a little bit more subdued. I love to watch as she starts to become herself. She begins with a shower in which she shaves her whole body. I can hear her humming softly in the shower. When she gets out, the transformation has already begun, almost as if she washed that guy down the drain. As she cools off, she starts to put on her panties. (As Donna mentioned, she has more than a touch of ADD, so she’ll do one thing, then get distracted and move onto something else.) So with her panties on, she’ll start to apply her makeup. As she sees more of herself appearing in the mirror, she hums more and gets kind of bouncy. She bounces up and down on her toes. After the makeup is finished, she bounces, prances or something to her messy pile of clothes to decide on a dress. At this point, she is no longer walking but bouncing on the balls of her feet, tiptoeing with a little spring in her step. I can already see the confidence exuding from her. She’ll slip on her outfit and then her wig. As she starts to comb it, she sees the real her emerging and smiles at what she sees in the mirror. Next comes the ubiquitous pearl necklace, bracelets and earrings. With each addition, Donna becomes bolder, happier, more energized. And finally she painstakingly applies lipstick that is just going to end up all over my face anyway. That is the finishing touch. I don’t know if I’ve adequately described the changes in her or not. All I know is she becomes happier, more confident and absolutely buoyant as she adds more and more of her real self to her outer body.
Caramel: Vickie, are your closest friends okay with the fact that Donna is transgender?
Vickie: I have come out to many friends and family about Donna. I have always been worried about how they would react. And I have always been pleasantly surprised that they are very accepting. No one has had an issue with it. I always come armed with photographs (G-rated) of Donna and me. And most of the time, they are just in awe of Donna’s appearance. They are always curious and have lots of questions. But I did too, at first. It’s a new concept to many and they just want to understand. The thing about Donna is that she doesn’t really come off as TG. She appears to be a freakishly tall woman. And even if people know that she is TG, she is just so normal that it becomes a non-issue. I am dealing with the prospect of taking her to my 30th high school class reunion next year. I know my friends will accept her. I wonder how mere acquaintances in my class will perceive her. And then I think “Do I really care?” What difference does it make what they think? What matters is that Donna and I are happy together. I recently told my boss about our relationship. He is a very macho man’s man. He is also a loving father and big-hearted guy. I told him my story, showed him pictures of Donna and me and waited for his response. He asked “Are you happy?” When I replied “yes,” he said that’s all that matters. And I have to agree. Our personal happiness and acceptance of ourselves is all that should matter to us.
Caramel: Does your family know about and accept the gender issues involved in your relationship with Donna?
Vickie: I don’t have much family. My parents have passed. I am an only child. I have two grown children who know and accept Donna. I told my daughter about Donna being TG very early on in our friendship. She was also the first person I told about our love relationship, a few weeks after my first visit to Donna. Truthfully, it was a little difficult for her to accept, which is strange for me because she has many friends who are gay or lesbian. I guess it’s different when it’s your own mother. But she doesn’t condemn me for it. I think she just wishes a more “normal” life for me. She hasn’t met Donna yet and I can’t wait for that moment. I know that she will love her, as everyone who meets her does. My 20-year old son has met Donna and likes her very much. With both of my children, their concern is for my happiness. They recognize the happiness in me now. They know it is because of Donna. And that’s enough.
Caramel: I’m curious about how the two of you blend your other passions and hobbies as a couple. For instance, I know you love hot rods and trucks, Vickie. Have you managed to seduce Donna into the exotic auto world?
Vickie: The big secret is that we’re both really big geeks. We love history and obscure word derivations and family trees and crossword puzzles. We share a lot of music back and forth, everything from classic rock to ballads from the 40s to early liturgical hymns. She finds antique treasures in the mud of coastal waters and sends me some of them, and similarly, I love searching for sea glass when I’m up there. We argue about politics and discuss religion and spirituality. We’re currently reading together Elizabeth Gilbert’s “Eat, Pray, Love.” I read it earlier this year and am now re-reading with Donna (and preparing chapter quizzes for her as an incentive. She’s such a nerd that she really needs a test in order to get her homework done!)
Caramel: Donna, I know that you’re interested in archaelogy and play guitar. Do you share these passions with Vicki and what pastimes do you most enjoy mutually?
Donna: I have a whole range of geeky interests and I share all of them with Vickie. I send her photos of all my latest “archaeological” finds, mp3s of songs I like, recordings of myself, and I do a lot of general blathering about this, that and the other thing. I tend to talk a lot about all my esoteric fascinations. Vickie is very indulgent of my dorky enthusiasm, and if she’s bored out of her mind from listening to me go on and on, she certainly doesn’t show it.
Vickie hasn’t even tried to seduce me into the exotic auto world, but I hope the day comes when she finally gets the hot pink ’57 T-bird convertible she’s always wanted and takes me for a joyride in the country. I also look forward to taking Vickie with me to watch my cousin race his 650 hp modified stock car on the ½ mile dirt track at Lebanon Valley Speedway in Upstate NY.
Caramel: Vickie, what advice would you have for another woman dating a transgender person and not sure if they can deal with their mate’s lifestyle and personal journey?
Vickie: Well, because each person’s journey is different, I don’t think I can really offer blanket advice. Dating a TG is complicated, there’s no doubt about that. But dating Donna would be complicated anyway because she’s a complicated individual.
I’m not sure I’m really qualified to give relationship advice, but as with all relationships, I think communication is the key. Talk about everything. No subject should be off limits. If you want to know how she feels about something, don’t assume you know the answer… ask. Make sure you understand where she is emotionally, intellectually and sexually. Make sure you know what she wants and needs from you emotionally and physically.
Be prepared to want to beat your head against the wall sometimes. Depending where she is on her journey, you may be dealing with an adolescent girl at times and they are the most frustrating creatures on the face of the earth. Be patient. Eventually this young girl will mature into a self-assured woman and it can be the best relationship of your life.
One the lighter side, remember that it may take her hours to get ready to go out. Find something to do while she primps. And know that she’s probably going to look in every mirror, every window, every reflective surface she can find to check her makeup and/or admire her beauty. Deal with it, with a smile on your face. Let her make mistakes and learn from them. Don’t tell her what to wear or how to apply makeup unless she asks. Think of how you felt when you were 18. Did you want your mom telling you what to do and how to do it? Instead, lead by example. Let her learn techniques from you if she wishes, or just let her forge her own path.
I think one of the greatest pleasures in watching Donna blossom into this confident, gorgeous, sexy woman has been rediscovering some of my own independence and femininity. As I encourage her to be true to herself and be the woman she wants to be, I’ve learned to let go and do the same for myself. My wish is that everyone can experience this in whatever relationship they might be in.
Caramel: Donna, one night you introduced your oldest friend to Vickie over margaritas at Fanueil Hall in Boston and they hit it off very well. Were you at any point nervous about how your friend at Vickie would hit it off?
Donna: No, I wasn’t at all nervous about their meeting. Vickie and John are both nice, warm, down-to-earth, engaging people, and each had heard a great deal about the other in advance of their meeting. I had a pretty good sense that they would like each other from the start. It probably helped that Vickie is a gg, and a very pretty gg at that. If I’d invited him to meet a boyfriend or a tg girlfriend it might have been a little more awkward for John. He’s a very straight guy and he still hasn’t had the time he needs to fully process and come to terms with my transgender identity. I think seeing me in a committed love relationship with a gg gives John a sense of stability and continuity. I’m not saying that he would ever judge me negatively for liking men. It’s just that knowing that I still like pretty girls, too, reassures him that the person he has known for more than 30 years hasn’t completely vanished on him.
Having the love of my life and my best friend finally meet was a huge thing for me and I was thrilled that it happened. John and Vickie have bonded and become fast friends. They’ve bonded so well, in fact, that during a recent serious personal crisis, both Vickie and I have been emotional anchors for him. I knew their meeting would turn out well, but this is bigger than I ever imagined.
Caramel: I’ve lived in Boston for seven years and in Cambridge for one year. That was a long time ago, but New England as I remember was not exactly the most TG friendly areas I’ve lived in. I’ve heard things have improved, but is the metro Boston area more trans-friendly than let’s say ten years ago?
Donna: I’ve never lived anywhere else as a tgirl, so I’m afraid I don’t have anything by way of comparison. That said, the Boston area has never struck me as particularly tg-unfriendly. I’ve been going out in public for years, regularly venturing into places where many tgirls would fear to tread, and I’ve never encountered any significant problems. People are almost unfailingly nice and accommodating wherever I go. I will concede that the transgender bar scene in Boston is pathetically second-rate, especially for one of the great cities of the world, but that’s probably the local tg community’s fault for not being enterprising enough. Is there anybody out there willing put up some money to help build a better drag bar than that wretched little hole called Jacques? Fortunately, I’m totally comfortable going to “straight” venues so the lack of a good local tg scene isn’t an issue for me. The less confident, more tentative people out there, however, ought to have a better array of choices than they currently have.
Caramel: Thank you both for being so candid and descriptive. I’ve been very anxious to do my first interview a hot and loving couple and this has truly exceeded my expectations.
You can find more of Donna and Vickie at Flickr and at the fantastic group I’ve asked to help them run named T-Girl Erection. Also visit the Donna Queen Blog and for video content, don’t miss that hot content I was talking about at Donna’s YUVUTU page. Donna’s Yahoo group is Donna Queen and I hope to see you there.